Table of Contents
Screenshot of Shep and his Response to CSAM, moderation, communication and more
💡Disclaimer: Only screenshot remained AFAIK, so used iOS’ image to text copy method. The transcript below may not be completely accurate. Refer to the screenshot provided when you have doubts.
shep hey all, 8:03 PM just want to say if you have not been following, a former moderator made a post with a bunch of criticisms about our internal moderation policies. a handful of the things in there are incorrect, but for the most part, the complaints are painful because they are true. over the last month, we have been working on some improvements to the sites moderation tools and structure, as well as how we communicate. we are going to be accelerating these plans and there will be more concrete updates for you early next week. we have a lot of work to do. i shared this earlier today but wanted to repost a message that hugo wrote, initially intended for our mods, that provides a little more context about what will be coming: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-rNP6aGCizg105vgi7TcxnW807d-83matVgNOBBAgWM/edit?usp-sharing i want to make clear one thing that is entirely untrue in the former mods post: janitor has absolutely no tolerance for sam or content containing minors. we do not want it, the people who create it, or the people who engage with it anywhere near the platform. this has always been the case, and i would immediately remove anyone who attempted to loosen this policy, formally or informally, from the team. this is one of the reasons i rolled out ai mod and removed nude images in general, we cant be a place for that kind of content. full stop. i reviewed our audit logs and over the last month, we banned over 150 users for creating or promoting minor related content. we also regularly ban users with high levels of interaction with that content when we detect it. the automod system blocked more than 6,000 bots from being published where the content contained minors. implied characters were minors, or left the ages ambiguous. finally, about communication, i recognize, as i have before, that i am often not good at communicating with you all. this has become particularly hard as the site has grown to the extent it has and the level of communication you all have expected has (understandably) risen, we have not done as good as a job as we should have. i am going to be taking a step back and will be letting the rest of the team handle more of this. this is hard because i love you all and love king to you all, but ultimately i want what is best for janitor <3.
Extra Docs
A google docs in the comment from painting_ether
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18TlJNtcDByDrrtOi9vV9V-R_ygNuLQkeruBo8wgClzA/edit?usp=drivesdk
Transcript copied here
Comments Archives
Why shep deleted it? Question
View NSFW content r/JanitorAI_Official - Why shep deleted it?
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Search Comments Expand comment search Comments Section u/Final-Being-9323 avatar Final-Being-9323 • 3d ago Maybe he realized that saying that he wants to be even less involved instead of taking responsibility for his site sounds terrible.
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u/The_Putrid_Tart avatar The_Putrid_Tart • 3d ago In fairness just about every problem I can think of on this site is the admins and dev teams being too involved. They need to zip it and work on the damn model that has been in beta for how many years now and stop messing with the UI and rules.
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1 more reply gezeitenspinne • 3d ago I mean, he does get criticised for how he communicates all the time. It actually sounds reasonable that he'd step back from communication - as long as communication with the rest of the team actually works… 😬
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u/BadgersSeal avatar BadgersSeal • 3d ago Horny 😰 If he's stepping back, I hope he finds someone else who can properly communicate.
The higher echelon of Janitor needs serious work, and that's putting it mildly. If Shep loves Janitor as much as he says he does, he'll work on making it better (VERY BIG IF). If not, we've probably reached the end of funny doge smutbot site
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VariousCustomer5033 • 3d ago With how spread thin the staff is (chief complaint from the moderator being there are only 3, now 2 after their departure on the mod team) in addition to people criticizing the lack of transparency, saying you're going to take a more hands off approach and delegate communication to other members of the team when you're the owner of the platform is an *abysmal* look.
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1 more reply u/kappakeats avatar kappakeats • 3d ago I'm not super sure why people think shep taking a step back is a bad thing. Haven't we seen him using favoritism when giving out verifications? Doesn't the mod expose accuse devs of unbanning people for unexplained reasons? Don't we all complain when he implements a big change without telling anyone? Sometimes reversing it a day later. And it seems unprofessional the way he still treats JAI like he can be buddy buddy with us all. That's nice in theory, terribly unprofessional in reality.
Shep is not good at communication or PR. They need someone in charge of policy and community management. Shep should probably largely stick to coding and general “what is the direction of JAI” things (hopefully with input from others).
More accountability from him would be good but stepping back doesn't sound bad.
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u/Final-Being-9323 avatar Final-Being-9323 • 3d ago Considering he hasn't communicated with his own team before implementing changes so far, and he has promised better communication a million times, I can't believe he'll communicate efficiently with a third party in the middle. Sounds like a broken telephone to me. I may be overly pesimistic tho, time will tell.
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LSDJoeAna • 3d ago I am honestly wondering: is shep autistic? Genuinely not trying to be offensive or edgy. The way he responds to situations and people is kind of… inappropriate? Careless? It's just odd. I could pull a random person from the street, debrief the situation to them, and they'd have a more regular response.
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MallNo6353 • 3d ago SublimePastel • 3d ago Touched grass last week 🏕️🌳 Yeah, I took a screenshot when I read it too. I knew it would end up getting deleted.
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Share Ya0isan • 3d ago That just sounds like he’s going to let the rest of the dev team take all the heat if things continue going in the same direction. Idk, I don’t see the good in shep saying he’ll stay in the background. Anyone have a different perspective ?
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reaper004 • 3d ago Horny 😰 Call me stupid but I genuinely don't understand how one can be “bad at communicating” like, is it really that hard to simply… Make a post everytime there's changes? Maybe even as a simple, hey, we made some changes like this etc.
Genuinely asking.
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u/SoraMelodiosa avatar SoraMelodiosa • 3d ago its basicialy after more than a year of getting criticised for it hes saying he acknowledges it but still doesn't care enough to change anything
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Trick2056 • 3d ago its least the other guy that made another chat website acknowledge he sucks at communication and just basically made changes to make his site better and somewhat future proof (basically allowing people download Character cards and chat data) and just dipped
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u/LadyGhoost avatar LadyGhoost • 3d ago Chronically Confused 😕⁉️ As someone with a master in communication, let me tell you, there is a reason communicator is a job. People are worse at communicating than you think.
Not defending anyone here. But even if you make a post every time there are changes, people will still read, understand and interact with those posts differently. Different people require different types of communication.
With that said, yes, the sites communication is horrible and comically bad. Because while it isn't as easy as just posting things, they aren't even trying. And I would rather have them try to communicate, do it badly, learn from it and keep trying. Then not communicating at all.
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u/RouroniDrifter avatar RouroniDrifter • 3d ago Just an excuse. You can't have such a role in the site and yet still claim you're bad at communicating
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u/SoraMelodiosa avatar SoraMelodiosa • 3d ago How do they detect things in chat exactly
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u/MountOlympu avatar MountOlympu • 3d ago • Edited 3d ago Tech Support! 💻 You chat using their servers. The mods have all your chats, all your bots, everything etc on their database (this goes for most websites). They could care less about your chats, however.
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u/SoraMelodiosa avatar SoraMelodiosa • 3d ago saying that under a post of them talking how they detect and look at chats is kinda funny
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6 more replies u/_SecretGoonerAccount avatar _SecretGoonerAccount • 3d ago Horny 😰 wait so they’re basically saying they’re monitoring our chats… Looks at slope, that is clearly covered in baby oil…
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u/Not-a-Russian avatar Not-a-Russian • 3d ago I'm not saying it's 100% but something, a hunch, tells me that the communication regarding “only ban csam if it's really bad” DID take place and Shep just wanted to soften the blow
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Wubwubmagic • 3d ago Yeah the big take away I saw from this is that their actively viewing our chats to virtue signal for payment processors. Normally I don't care for janitorai drama. But this is serious if true, I imagine this is a deal breaker for many. I expect privacy in my chatlogs, what I do with my bots is none of their fucking business.
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kakkapeli999 • 2d ago If you want privacy you need to locally host the LLM.
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u/Strange_Discount_291 avatar Strange_Discount_291 • 3d ago Lying through his teeth, this mf just can't take accountability
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u/F1re56 avatar F1re56 • 3d ago Horny 😰 Can't believe anything this pos says bc he lies all the time.
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[deleted] • 3d ago PaulVazo21 • 3d ago Not even him believe what he posted.
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u/SpiritNo6626 avatar SpiritNo6626 • 3d ago “We also ban users with high levels of interaction with that content” wait so are they keeping track of the bots you use and banning for that? I'd like to think it's some magical thing that only triggers when someone interacts with an untagged minor bot (and somehow magically knows that bots a minor) but that's not how reality works, this means there's something that's keeping track of every single bot you interact with and the second they decide they want to ban for dead dove or similar, they already have the systems in place to ban interaction beyond actual posting bots.
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u/DesperateRise81 avatar DesperateRise81 • 3d ago so are they keeping track of the bots you use and banning for that? It looks like they are keeping track of a lot more than expected, yes.
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Knickers_in_a_twist_ • 3d ago Touched grass last week 🏕️🌳 I’m sorry, but there is absolutely no excuse for not communicating with your mod team. They’re helping you keep your site above water and pushing out major updates, that bring big changes, without preparing them first is shitty. Mods finding things out at the same time as us is wild.
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u/LegitimateLook8209 avatar LegitimateLook8209 • 3d ago Janitor 🧹🪣🧼 because he's the one that tells LIES
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u/PaymentObjective3843 avatar PaymentObjective3843 • 3d ago I don’t understand why this silly chat bot site produces so much drama. It is genuinely not that serious.
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u/sebastianholtzz avatar sebastianholtzz • 3d ago Honestly I was blissfuly unaware of it until today when one of the bot makers I use posted about it. Idk I was fine with JAI didn't really see problems but maybe the type of bots I use are still good and I'm lucky
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Adorable-Rope-8239 • 3d ago its true that irl it isn’t serious, but when you’re called out for being incompetent af and you barely take accountability and only acknowledge the communication that you know you’re bad at and didn’t try to change, its pretty serious to some people especially since this site could be so good if the owner would just listen for once
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Technical_Version_26 • 2d ago Legally they have to say that about the CSAM. Realistically they need to stop trying to 'improve' shit, hire and pay for more mods
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u/painting_ether avatar painting_ether • 3d ago No. That's just plain wrong in terms of how it's being handled.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18TlJNtcDByDrrtOi9vV9V-R_ygNuLQkeruBo8wgClzA/edit?usp=drivesdk
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u/Inevitable-Year-2012 avatar Inevitable-Year-2012 • 3d ago So people who chat with their own private bot can get in trouble too? No freaking way… 💀
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kakkapeli999 • 2d ago What private bot? There is no privacy when you are using other person's servers, hardware. If you want privacy you need to locally host the LLM.
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u/Inevitable-Year-2012 avatar Inevitable-Year-2012 • 2d ago I'm aware, but even so, it's called “private bots”, so the minimum they could do is to respect that and leave it alone
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Protopred • 2d ago I can still see the post perfectly fine in the discord… what is this thread 🙄
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WeirdLostEntity • 3d ago • Edited 2d ago Lots of questions ⁉️ call me a weirdo but it's actually incorrect to refer to fictional content as CSAM, unless it's specifically inspired by a real person. I'm not saying they can't ban it, but it's literally not CSAM by the definition of ut
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GrimBunnyTales • 2d ago Lots of questions ⁉️ What information does Janitor’s automated moderation system log when private chat content is flagged? (e.g., metadata only vs. message content)
How long are automated moderation logs retained before deletion or rotation
Do automated flags on private chats ever result in human review, or are they handled entirely by automated systems unless content is public or reported?
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u/Ok-Sprinkles-4085 avatar Ok-Sprinkles-4085 • 2d ago Unmotivated Bot Creator 🛌💤 lol i come back and janitor is in flames…. oh well!
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LilGymbro00 • 3d ago Yeah? I’ll believe the guy that walked away and wrote a document that sounds more professional than this 17 year old’s ever been, rather than the guy that sucks dick at comms.
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[deleted] • 3d ago Comment removed by moderator
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u/JanitorAI_Official-ModTeam avatar JanitorAI_Official-ModTeam MOD • 3d ago Please, no unrelated promotions or mentions of self, non-JanitorAI-related content, or competing chatbot sites here in the JanitorAI subreddit. This includes off topic content.
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u/Rich-Safe-4936 avatar Rich-Safe-4936 • 2d ago • Edited 2d ago Maybe, Just Maybe No offense but the whole « minor » talk is hard to believe when the slightest nonsexual sentence can easily trigger that. I remember detailing for the billions time a height difference for a character nearly 30 years old and LLM generated something involving a minor. So, it’s pretty easy to assume that there must be people who purposely generate those things, especially when seeing the thousands of bots involving incest/power dynamic and I do remember seeing questionable bots that only got taken down once they released the AI for pictures moderation. (Edit: just saw the where it all comes from and yeah definitely what I thought about this specific topic)
For the communication, I assume they are all adults and at the end of the day, once you own a business, you can’t afford bad communication, let alone lack of responsibilities over it which is something that is becoming extremely common nowadays. J.ai seems to have the -allegedly- appropriate teams and funds to deal with such things easily + let’s be real, this is an AI website, so, might as well use AI to word themselves if it’s truly “that” hard to practice basic communication that, as adults, we’re responsible to teach ourselves how to do so.
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IdentityThefti • 2d ago Horny 😰 I would love to see Shep actually getting replaced. I wish the site would actually be run by someone who has some sense in their head..
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MallNo6353 • 3d ago Ok. Calmly - I still don’t get it. Policy has always said no chats are private. Only the awareness here has changed.
Structure can be improved by having clear role definitions because moderators are not meant to have access, safety teams do. Please read the privacy policies on ever large AI corp because it’s the same. No AI LLM service has no access to chats inside private accounts. I don’t even think it’s legally possible to offer that service without getting into a whole lot of trouble.
Private accounts are also accessible inside our top social media accounts for moderations and it’s why warrants allow access in internal human chats. Didn’t people know that?
Private bots and chat are only socially private on every single AI service.
The reason for it is that CSAM is monitored for and is not even permitted as stored private files on personal hard drives. That’s why people get arrested for exploitive content.
So just don’t put things into any digital device that you don’t want anyone to see. Just don’t break laws. And if you’re shy about your chats, just be aware that on any platform it can be accessed for moderation by safety teams that own the platform.
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u/AutoModerator avatar AutoModerator MOD • 3d ago Thanks for posting your question! As a note, many questions regarding rules or safety concerns can be asked in the official help page at https://help.janitorai.com/. For those with questions related to nonfunctioning proxies, please review the proxy megathread at https://www.reddit.com/r/JanitorAI_Official/s/dGlUVi2dQD
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v4mpy1_ • 2d ago ive been with this site for so long and shep has the worst case of “foot-in-mouth” syndrome ive ever seen.
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